Ep # 105 | The Wild, Wild West

ELIZABETH HAGUE.jpg

ELIZABETH HAGUE

Elizabeth is a professional creative brand and marketing expert focused on the intersection of authentic storytelling and ROI. She’s been a speaker at Georgia State University, published for her thought leadership with 12+ years in the creative marketing world and was community-nominated and voted as one of Georgia’s “Most Inspirational Women,” by Ellis. In her free time she’s a self-proclaimed lazy gardener, mother to stray pets, roller skater and hot sauce aficionado.

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Sophie: Hey Elizabeth, thank you so much for being on the show.

Elizabeth: Hi, how are you?

Sophie: I'm doing great, thank you. How are you?

Elizabeth: Good, thanks.

Sophie: Well, we're so excited to have you here and learn more about Wildcat Echo and all of the amazing things you're doing for your clients as far as branding and marketing goes, but just to kick things off, go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience and chat a little bit about how you started the company.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Let's see if I can make this interesting for people, because usually by the time we get here, it's like, "Oh my God, stop listing your resume already." My name is Elizabeth Hague. I am the person, the face, the voice behind Wildcat Echo. I have a big personality. I'm sure you already guessed that, but I have a ton of accolades on my resume. I won't list them. I won't bore you, but some of the highlights, including working with the city of Atlanta, I've worked with Teach for America. I've developed a lot of voice and tone for products and companies here locally in Atlanta. And right now, I am just really excited that it's 2019 and that I'm doing this podcast.

Sophie: Brilliant. So tell us a little bit about what Wildcat Echo does and maybe how you got your start in the marketing industry.

| LAUNCH YOUR DREAM |

Elizabeth: Oh yeah, of course. So Wildcat Echo is essentially the place that you come to you as a business to launch your dream, whatever it might be. Our focus right now is primarily B2C products. So this year in particular, I'm working a lot of products, like new product lines for companies, emerging startups that are trying to break the mold and do something innovative. I'm essentially the person behind the scenes that is the sausage maker. So if you have any questions about how does the sausage get made, I'm super transparent about that kind of stuff. My career started very humbly. I have a degree in fine art, specifically in dark room photography, not even digital photography, dark room photography, which ended up turning out to be just as good as having a degree in underwater basket weaving. By the time I graduated in 2007, I hit that market and that job market was like, "No, no ma'am, we do not want you." So most of my career has been scrappy, hustling on the side to get things done. I never waited for someone to give me an opportunity to learn. I always tried to seek out knowledge myself. I didn't wait for people to tell me if I was worthy. I kind of just jumped into things and tried things along the way, But I'm making it sound like I just scrapped my way through it. I've had some really great opportunities. I've worked with some amazing companies. I've been headhunted before. I've been involved in VC fund sales, and I'm not even really that old, so that's pretty great.

Sophie: That sounds really awesome. I think in marketing specifically, and of course what we do in social media, the continued education pieces is so important because what your degree was 5, 10 years ago, it doesn't matter anymore because there's a new one that probably trumps it that's more innovative and applicable to the current climate. So I think that's awesome that you were mostly self-taught.

Elizabeth: Yeah, absolutely. I have met a mentor through university, so Georgia State University, and I work with a women lead program and every single year when I'm talking to these new or almost about to be alums, graduating from college with whatever, they all have crazy degrees in whatever, film and marketing. You name it, they have a degree in it. My line for mentoring is always really long because I think people are really interested in hearing what it is on the job market, if they've picked the right degree, and I always give them the same advice. It kind of almost doesn't matter what you get a degree in, just that you have the degree to prove that you're smart and teachable. But the rest of it is up to you. Marketing is so massive. You could do anything or nothing or niche super hard. I mean, it's like the wild wild west, which is super fun and really great.

Sophie: That's such an awesome way to describe marketing as the wild wild west. I couldn't agree more.

Elizabeth: It is, though, right?

Sophie: It totally is.

Elizabeth: It's constantly changing.

Sophie: And the vastness of it. Sometimes I just get such digital overwhelm because I'll read one Social Media Today article and then go down this rabbit hole of just trying to keep learning. And then you're like, "Am I ever going to retain all of this?"

Elizabeth: No. And then you also get to feeling like, clearly I'm doing all of this wrong. But people keep hiring me because I'm really, really great at these 10 things and people desperately need that, but the rest of it is just like I'm learning so ... There's a huge wall, a mountain of marketing information. You can't possibly be an expert in everything. You have to niche on something and have focus on something. I chose brand. You guys chose social media, which is awesome, and marketing in that sphere. So we cross over quite a bit. So that's cool.

Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of people hiring you, what is the biggest problem that they are usually looking to solve?

| A COHESIVE SYSTEM |

Elizabeth: So the biggest problem they're usually looking to solve, everyone that comes to me is terrified that the product idea or the feeling of it or the look of it isn't going to get across their message. The thing that they're working on is their baby and they want to do the best they possibly can. They want to sell the most. They want to attract the best target audience. They want to make the most money. They want to have huge crowds of people just applauding them. They want to be big successes. That's what motivates most of us, to accomplish and feel good about the things that we're doing. So it's different for each and every person that I have to work with, but that's generally the sentiment, that they're terrified and they want to make sure that this is going to work really well, and who do they trust, because it is the wild, wild west trying to choose even just a branding person, like, "What do I do?" And trying to, as the consumer as a client or customer, like my customers, there's such a huge barrier to entry to understand what is even any of this. So the majority of work that I do solves those issues and I spend a lot of time trying to explain things to people in human language, not just marketing, technical speak or whatever. I'm just trying to impart to them how interconnected brand is with marketing, which is social media, and then social media back to storytelling, into your emails, into this whole cohesive system.

Sophie: Absolutely. And the cohesiveness is just so important. When a new client comes to you, are you usually working with a blank canvas or are you picking up from some weird Canva design that they've made on their own?

Elizabeth: Oh my God. No, yeah. People that come to ... Not hating on Canva.

Sophie: I do love Canva, but-

Elizabeth: Not hating on it, but because I have such a rich and deep history of design, the majority of people that come to me already know that they're going to get something original from me. A lot of my customers are startups. They usually don't have very many things kind of going on just yet. So it's kind of like for me, 50/50. So half of the people come to me with nothing. And then the other half of people come to me already as an established business and there's a major roadblock. Either they've just had their brand forever and it's not working anymore, something's not right. Maybe they have a new product line and they're terrified. They want to like change the way it looks, but they're not sure exactly how to do that without disrupting their happy customers, but they want to break away and create something completely different, and how do we keep that branded, to people that are like ... I'm launching ... So I'm working with a client right now. She's creating female sauces, like sauces geared for women, which is really cool because barbecue sauce is basically all dude stuff, looks very rudely to me at least. How do we design that to make that ... It's just from scratch completely. So I mean, most of the time I'm doing a huge amount of brand strategy. We're talking about target market research, consumer insights, just these hardcore marketing analytics. These are things that are really important for me to even get information from, even for people that already have things. People that come to me know that I'm going to be doing all of that hardcore work to make sure that we get down to the closest possible answer to make them successful.

Sophie: That sounds like an awesome process, and I'm very excited to learn more about this barbecue brand offline.

Elizabeth: Yeah, girl. She's got three sauces. Let me pimp it out right now. No, just kidding.

Sophie: That does sound amazing, and I couldn't agree more. It's totally a male-driven industry and you don't even consider that. So tell me a little bit about how that process works. Let's say we're with the blank canvas. What are the next steps for when you start to dive into a brand as far as discovering who they are and sourcing that inspiration?

Elizabeth: Yeah, I think it's important to address what brand even means, because brand can mean so many different things to so many different people. To some people, a brand is just visual, and sometimes they break that down even more. Sometimes it's just logo. And to other individuals, it's a whole entire system including voice and tone, how your brand essentially reacts in marketing, how does the brand handle different scenario, what does all of marketing look like? Is that dictated by brand? So I'm of the school of thought that brand is a massive system and it's deeply connected to sales under the umbrella of marketing. It's a function of marketing, but you have to think about, "Okay, I'm selling a product," or, "I'm selling an idea," or "I'm selling a feeling. What can I do that puts the best foot forward of this company in order to make sure that it's the most successful it possibly can be by appealing to XYZ market." So to me, the very first thing I do is I run my clients or customers through some marketing analytics, marketing techniques, target market research, consumer insight. Even if they don't have customers already, we run some Facebook ads to do polling, to get opinions on things. We do giveaways to try and entice people to fill out surveys, that kind of stuff, because the reality of it is no matter what kind of marketing you're doing, it could be brand, it could be social, it could be email, it could be ads, it could be any function of branding, if you do not know who your audience is, if you do not have stats or numbers or any factual information, it makes it incredibly difficult and very, very, very expensive to move forward on whatever marketing activity it is, especially in brand because brand is the first touchpoint of your business and marketing. It has to be on point. It has to be a cohesive system. So anytime I'm starting a new project, I have to just dive into what is the scientific facts. If we don't have those, how can we obtain them and how can we obtain them in an easy way that's not going to blow everybody's budget?

Sophie: Totally. So other than not knowing their audience, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see clients making?

| THE POWER OF BRANDING |

Elizabeth: So the two schools of thought that I mentioned before, I think the biggest mistake is that people don't fully understand the power of branding or that branding is really even just interconnected into marketing. A lot of people treat branding as a separate function, that somehow the brand is kind of like this holy grail piece that is somehow not necessarily ... I mean, these are people that think about brand as just visual, like their logo is somehow like not ... or what would look like or they feel like somehow doesn't show up in marketing, which is crazy to me. But I think that's mostly coming from a place of, you're thinking and looking at the brand as this separate function that doesn't really relate fully cyclically through your sales cycle or how you treat people on social media. It's like you have to have a foundation, start somewhere to dictate what the look of everything else should be. How do you talk to people? What do you post as content in a blog or how do you choose creative? It has to come from brand. So the biggest mistake I see, especially in startups in the early kind of beginning stages, because people don't, some of them are not as educated. They may jump the gun and create a really cool logo that doesn't mean anything and they think, "I'm done." And there's a whole other world of marketing to get done. You see that less with more funded startups, or I'm working with products a lot more, so I'm seeing that a lot less. But it still is a very frequent mistake people make, along with just not having any of the data, no research or no surveys done. That is probably the number one mistake, the number one real mistake. But the generalized second one is just misinterpreting what brand is and then misusing that information and then being like, "I'm done, and then now what do I choose for content? What am I doing?" that kind of thing.

Sophie: So switching back to processes, once you've kind of done that deep dive into who their audience is, are there a series of questions that you encourage them to ask when you're kind of trying to find out what their story is and maybe the why behind who they are?

Elizabeth: Yeah. So I run all of my people through a personal private survey. So while I have maybe these public surveys happening, I'm doing some market research, I'm doing competitor analysis, all those things are happening without my client, or just I'm doing them in the background, I'm having them fill out a really comprehensive, just onboard me into your business. Treat me like I'm part of your team, like your hired employee, because I technically am. I'm technically kind of like, I'm working for them. I'm kind of operating as an employee that just is really smart in this one particular area. So I'm advising them, but onboard me into your head space. What is it that you want? Who are you? What is your vision of the business? I take that information and I ask myself, "Does that align with what I've gathered from the outside of the business?" If not, I'm going to bring that to my client and talk to them like, "Hey, you said XYZ, you love pink bubblegum, but everybody else in your market says that pink bubblegum is the stinkiest. It's the worst. So can you talk to me about where the discrepancy is? Where did you get this idea?" That kind of stuff. So me, I'm doing as much due diligence as I possibly can to get the inside information, compare that to, "Well, where did you get that?" And also, "Here's what this market is saying. Do we need to do further testing?" before I even really get to design. I mean, people are just like, "Just design it," and I'm like, "Nah, I need to do science experiments before I get to design."

Sophie: Absolutely. It's equal parts creative and strategic.

Elizabeth: Absolutely. Yeah.

Sophie: So do you ever have experiences where you receive kind of a kickback from a client where they aren't as open to changing things or trying something new?

| IT’S WILD |

Elizabeth: Absolutely. I've dealt with everything from individual business owners to C-suite level people, executives that I need to convince, all the way up to a board of directors slash stakeholders that are not interested in changing much because they don't see it as fiscal value. It's my job to talk to them about, "This is my professional opinion based on the years of experience I've been doing this. This is what I believe will be based on your target market info." It's science, so really arguing about the numbers, which is really kind of fun and easy for me because it's like, "If you don't want to do this, that's fine, but you'll be missing out on these opportunities. Do you feel okay with that?" And 99% of the feedback after that is, "Let me think about it," because there's usually a spark of something there, like, "Oh, maybe this could make me more money," or, "Maybe this could be an effective change for our overall marketing. Maybe I want to keep my logo exactly the same, but maybe there's some other ways that El can help me improve, or Wildcat could help me improve in different places, maybe not visual, but more strategy." So yeah, I mean, I've kind of seen it all. I've seen people approve everything and be totally chill and love it and then go on and be crazy successful. I've had people fight me tooth and nail. I've had in between. Yeah, it's wild.

Sophie: No pun intended there.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Sophie: That's awesome. Our team also can struggle with that sometimes. Sometimes you just have to look at yourself in the mirror and remind yourself that you're the expert, especially when you receive that kickback, and kind of build that personal confidence, especially when we're a team of young women, often talking to a lot of senior execs and things like that, so we can totally relate on that level.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Oh sorry, go ahead.

Sophie: You go ahead.

Elizabeth: Oh yeah. One of the biggest reasons why I speak so often and am such a proponent for education and I'm supportive of small women in business and just trying to help the next crop of women, is that I've dealt with this my entire career. And luckily now that I'm in a stage ... I'm not ancient, but I'm not young either. I'm kind of in that groovy middle state where I'm just kind of confident and my skin still looks decent, so that's good. But I've definitely gotten to a point in my career where it's kind of like, I'm not offended if you are like, "I don't like it." It's not a personal thing for me, which very well it shouldn't be. But at the same time I'm also like, "If you don't want to listen to my advice, I still get paid at the end of the day. You're just going to be missing out on some opportunities, and that's okay, too. You don't necessarily have to listen to me, but I am charging you and you didn't hire me. So what's the discrepancy here?" So sometimes it's a mismatch of personality, and that's okay, so you work through that. Sometimes it's not a correct project fit. That happens a lot less for me now, especially as I vet people a little bit harder. But I specifically, in my client experiences, I specifically put in blank spots where I'm like, "And this is where we argue about this." It's very much like, "On Friday we're going to meet to argue about this. Here's some feedback on how to give me really good arguing point. This is how you should argue with me. Tell me why. Give me the information. Give me more detail because I want to know exactly what you hate so that I can fix it, or let's have a conversation about it." So I actually build in arguing time into my ... not that I'm anticipating people yelling at me. They're just called feedback time, but I pretty much am like, "I'm ready. I'm here. Tell me what's wrong," that kind of stuff.

Sophie: No, I think that's awesome. And I really like that you touched on the fact that conflict really is part of the creative process sometimes, especially when you're working with a brand that might not be 100% aligned with what you had in mind for them. We think about that within our team at Imagine. Even when we've got ideas within the team internally, we encourage that healthy conflict or that healthy feedback so that we can all kind of learn and grow from each other as well, so that's really important.

Elizabeth: Yeah, we take on projects where we're like, okay, I absolutely know I can help them, but their vibe or their look or their feel is maybe just different than what I think could they could potentially be more successful with, if we did a bigger or drastic change, and sometimes companies aren't really ready for that. I think one of my least favorite designs has also been my most successful design because it's one of those more focused ... I have a tendency to personally really like challenging, exciting, bright colors, and that shows up a lot in my work sometimes. But every once in a while, I'll get a really straight and narrow project and I think it just speaks to what it's like to be a professional and setting your own personal feelings aside and listening, actually genuinely listening to your clients to be able to understand, "Okay, this is what they believe is going to be effective for them in marketing. I'm here to support that. If they don't do well, I don't do well." And sometimes you have to put that aside, which can be really tough, especially as a creative person. But really, I'm just here at the end of the day trying to help people make more money, so if that's what we got to do, it's what we got to do.

Sophie: Aren't we all?

Elizabeth: Yes.

Sophie: So speaking of being a creative person, how do you stay inspired in that wild wild west of the digital marketing world?

Elizabeth: Yeah, so in the last year specifically, I decided to step back more from doing the design work myself or being as heavily involved in the sense of being so hands on. I'm extremely well-known for all of my design work. Whatever you see in my portfolio now on Wildcat Echo, very little of it was handed off to other people, maybe a few things here and there, but they're noted. This year in particular, I'm stepping back a little bit more from that because I'm finding myself as a creative, you can get really burned out, especially when you have a lot of client requests asking for things that maybe you don't agree with or maybe this is not as an effective way to do things, or you spend a lot of time trying to convince your client to trust you. And I'm feeling more, especially at this stage in my career, that I would like to spend more of my time doing the strategy, doing the things that are really hard and then creating a creative brief and relying more on my team to get that done. So it's something like, let's kind of let some of that go. And I found that I exhibited more in art galleries because of that and created more personal artwork. So I mean, as far as staying fresh, I think sometimes you have to cut back in order to really appreciate what is inspiring in the world around you or even just kind of get that spark back. So I was definitely feeling that. It's been like six years. I've been doing it for six years. At some point it's kind of like, "All right, I can't just see the main mama here on everything. I've got to not burn myself out."

Sophie: Yeah. I think that less is more approach and quality over quantity definitely rings true in the creative field for sure. So I'd love to dig a little deeper. Obviously when you're advising clients for the most part it's B2C, but when you're advertising for Wildcat Echo, it's B2B. So how do you get the word out about Wildcat Echo as a brand to your potential clients?

Elizabeth: Yeah, I found that for me in particular, I don't want to blow up. I actually had a very strong conversation with a lot of really incredible female business owners about growth versus staying small maybe two years ago. And I sat down with a bunch of beautiful, wonderful women and just asked them the same question over and over again, like, "What did you do to blow up?" And I realized, the way that we function and the way that we are in the quality of work that we do and what our beliefs are and how deeply we really go, how much we really dive into each project, it isn't feasible for me to blow up. So it's typical stuff like Facebook ads, funnels. I mean, I set these all up for my clients. B2B for me, straight up, totally honest, specifically because I only want really great clients, it's all word of mouth. I mean, I don't take that lightly. I do treat that as a marketing campaign and marketing fodder. It's really important for me to continue my word of mouth. So there's like a client walkthrough that I do with people, someone I really love. I encourage them just to tell their friends, that kind of stuff. So we do have programs around word of mouth, but I have a tendency to want to keep things a little bit smaller and not do more traditional B2B, like lists and cold email, all that stuff, it just doesn't work for us. So yeah.

Sophie: Totally. And that's obviously a huge testament to the work that you do, that people are having such a great experience that they're referring you and continuing that pipeline.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I mean, that's how I've gotten 99% of my clients this entire time, and it's very delicate. As a pretty smart marketer, it's not smart to keep your eggs all in one basket. We do some other activities, but nothing has yielded as higher than working on personal relationships and grooming that word of mouth and just knowing people and being cool with other people, even if they're different or run a completely different business or maybe they're even a competitor of yours. There is no competition for me. We all do something totally radically different. The way that I handle clients is not the same as maybe a larger branding agency or any other branding agency. So it's kind of like there's no competition here. So yeah, we just create a lot of relationships and renew those and be genuine about it.

Sophie: Absolutely. I can imagine branding is similar too, I don't know, perhaps a financial advisor or realtor. You have to trust them so much with these huge decisions that could impact quite heavily on your future, but at the same time they could sometimes be a therapist, sometimes they're your advisor, sometimes they're just your friend. So I can see how you would play that role for your clients, as well.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And the other aspect of it, too, is that you're asking a company to make a very large purchase with you. My services start at $5,000 and they go up from there. I'm not massively expensive because we're not a huge studio. I think the biggest project I've worked on was for the government and it was, $35,000, and it may sound like a lot to some people, but for the government, that's not huge for a whole campaign. Presidents spend lots of money to try and get your vote and eyeballs. So $35,000 is a healthy chunk, but not millions. So I mean, my clients are usually kind of in the mid range. I've had other branding agencies say, "Why don't you charge more?" We're a studio of a couple of people. We are intimate. We spend a lot of time with our clients just doing the research and getting things done in a very specific way. Yeah, I'm sure I can charge $25,000. There are agencies out there that do, but those are not the clients that we're really seeking to work with. Those are clients that want the 15, 20, 30 person team. I'm a person or a team of three and I'm in charge of everything, so it's like you've got to think about that kind of stuff, too, and that pricing and sales and what kind of business you want to be, what kind of business you don't want to be, that has everything to do with kind of with the marketing that you choose. A Facebook ad for me is probably not going to net me an $8,000 client. It could. I'm sure it could, but that's not where my marketing ends up. And I'm totally honest and transparent about it. I'm happy to answer any of those questions. Nothing is a secret. I've just been at this for a while, so hopefully that helps whoever's listening to this, like FOMO or whatever.

Sophie: Yeah, definitely. I think that transparency piece is super admirable. Just one more question before we start to wrap things up, but I love following along on your Instagram stories and just your tips and tricks that you're always dishing out. So do you have-

Elizabeth: Girl, I'm always saying something weird on there. It's like I'm crazy.

Sophie: Well, I love following along and I'm sure a lot of other people do, too. So do you have a strategy behind that, or how do you decide ... I remember there was one series of flat lay advice that you did. How do you kind of get inspired to post that more lighthearted tips and tricks content?

| HONE YOUR OWN TARGET MARKET |

Elizabeth: Yeah. So Wildcat Echo is very much kind of one of those freewheeling brands. I'm a huge supporter of the LGBTQ community. I'm part of that community. I'm a huge supporter of equal rights, huge supporter of women's equality, and those things show up. We foster dogs. I'm painting myself into sounding like a granola person. I'm not. I'm just kind of punk rock about stuff. And that really, really shows up in things that I do. I run my business, so my personality has a tendency to kind of creep through and I've made it really clear on the Wildcat Echo page. All of the answers are coming from me. So if you have any questions, I'm the person answering it. But I also post personal thoughts and opinions. So as far as content, I spend a lot more time in stories than I do posting on my feed because to be frank, posting on my feed doesn't net me as much reaction or one-on-one conversation or experience as an Insta story does. So just strategy-wise there, I probably do an 80, 20 split or now mostly 90, 10% split where 90% of my time is spent futzing around in Insta stories sharing my day or sharing inspiration of design of other artists, or like, "Hey, it's pride month. Like let's celebrate that," or just being creative and interesting or telling people the truth about what it takes to ... I think when you're talking about the flat lay experiences, like, "Here's behind the scenes of, I'm shooting a bunch of product, photography product. I'm using Elmer's glue to substitute in ice cream because Elmer's glue doesn't melt." So I choose that content is really based on what's happening that week. So it's all very real. And I know that people really appreciate that. I get a ton of personal messages. I get a ton of feedback or a thumbs up or people are always posting in the polls that I put out. So I think it's all about engagement there. If I'm not seeing engagement on my feed, I'm focusing on building personal relationships and word of mouth. That's my whole marketing thing. It makes complete sense to invest 80 to 90% of my time doing something that may disappear in 24 hours, but gets people talking to me and is engaged and they remember my face. And it also does well to push away the clients I don't want to work with. I'm not going to work with an anti-LGBTQ organization. I'm just not, because it's not who I am. So that saves me time, honestly. It's kind of like I'm almost honing my own target market. I've been really, really successful with that. People really love it and respect it. And the people that aren't into it, they don't say anything. They disappear. I've never gotten hate for that. So yeah, I mean, that's a general ... It's all interconnected, right? It's all about what you want to do, right? Yeah.

Sophie: I think that's awesome that you're able to infuse your personal values in that way, and that way you can totally kind of even pre-vet who you're working with so you don't end up with someone not as favorable on the other end of that spectrum.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I mean, I have income goals I need to hit, but I also don't have ... I'm not carrying staff. I'm not caring. People constantly ask me, "Where are you working out of?" I'm working out of different place every day. This is all remote. And people that hire me are very much ... The projects I do are very cool because of that, like this women's sauce line. She's like, "Yeah girl, get it. I love that you're traveling all over the place and I want that vibe for my sauce." Those are the kind of people that I connect with, just genuine, really inspired people. And I feel like that should show up in marketing because you can't catch the people that are going to be a good fit for your business if you don't exemplify that. And I don't have to do massive marketing techniques because I'm not trying to make a million dollars a year or $10 million a year because that's not why I'm doing this, which flies in the face of I'm sure almost every other business owner. They're probably like, "Are you crazy? You should want to make a ton more money." So I'm taking it with a grain of salt, I guess.

Sophie: No, I agree. I'm with you. It's all about whether you're happy at the end of the day and feel good about what you did. I think that's definitely what's most important. So speaking of your Instagram stories, where can people follow along with Wildcat Echo?

Elizabeth: Yeah, you can follow me at Wildcat Echo, or if you want to follow my personal rollerskating, lazy plant, gardener person, foster dogs, you can always follow me @FollowElizabeth with a Z, either of those platforms. I run both of them, so I'm pretty accessible. I'm always up to something, whether it's on wheels or I'm shooting crazy products and putting Elmer's glue on literally everything, because that thing is like liquid gold. So come and hang out with me and we'll listen to music.

Sophie: Well, that's awesome. I can't wait to continue to follow along. Thank you so much for being on the show and joining us today. We so appreciate your time and can't wait to continue to follow the success of Wildcat Echo.

Elizabeth: Thanks for having me.